Burned at the stake for Reading Your Bible in A.A.

[dickb]

Christian Recovery Pastor: Don’t Leave A.A. and Don’t Dump Christian Meetings



Just Remember the Greatest Thing in the World



Dick,



In my humble opinion there is only one way to combat these changes. This is for Christians to quit exiting AA for Christ Center Recovery meetings. Of course as a recovery pastor I am not suggesting we forget about our Christ Centered recovery meetings. What I am suggesting is that we need to do both. We need to be able to share our faith at AA while staying within the traditions. We need to educate our folks about AA history and the use of the word God over 400 times in the Big Book. As Christians we are free share our faith as it personally relates to our recovery. If some are offended they will get over it if we persistently use our most powerful weapon.



We must remember that if we abandon AA there will not be Christians in the rooms to offer our experience strength and hope. It is so easy to get discouraged by some of the things that happen in the rooms but we have the greatest weapon of all, God's love, to share in a way our fellow Christians cannot. Why? Because we earned the seats in the rooms and we've experienced God's miracles in our lives.



Always remember what Paul told us, love is The Greatest Thing in The World. (See Henry Drummond for a great presentation on how to love?)



Yours in Christ



DM



Recovery Pastor

[Larrylive]

I have highlighted the word "God" throughout my BB and stress the lack of the word sponsor. Seems to many people inflate their own ego's demanding newcomers to follow their program, not that of AA.

I have also recently begun to place copies of the bible in our meeting place- free for the taking.

May the Lords peace be upon you.
Larry

[MajestyJo]

There is nothing wrong with reading the Bible, it has religious views and for many, it doesn't express a spiritual for many people. It is against the Traditions to put the Bible in meeting places, yet many meetings are held in Sunday School rooms here, and the word is there. It is freedom of choice. I have seen so many people walk out of the rooms of recovery when religion is brought up, no matter what denomination or belief.

I have always had a Bible. I shared some of my early meditations with others in my group, only if they were willing and interested in receiving them. A woman shared her story, and she referred to those readings which helped her to find her God. Spirituality can be found in the Bible if you look at it with an open mind. It isn't something that learned overnight. I was raised in the church, always believed in what I was taught, yet it never stopped me from becoming an alcoholic or an addict.

A young guy shared at a meeting that is his Higher Power was Jesus. People walked out of the meeting and he relapsed a week later. You have to live that others may see. You have to walk, that people can see God through you. The words mean nothing, if you don't apply them to your life. Reading doesn't help if you don't look at what your reading to see what you need for you. Jesus showed us a spiritual way of living. He walked His talk.

[BW1]

With all due respect there is no rule or mandate that says it is a violation to place a Bible in the meetings.

GSO states "AA has no index of forbidden books.....The General Service Conference cannot approve or disapprove any books published outside of AA." They further state..." Every group is autonomous and thus can read and sell whatever the group conscience decides." From THE BOOK THAT STARTED IT ALL..THE ORIGINAL WORKING MANUSCRIPT OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS pg 231

[MajestyJo]

AA was started through a religious group, The Oxford Group. It is my understanding and strictly my belief, that Bill and Dr. Bob were Divinely inspired to change the program that included everyone, so that no one was turned away. It is about the Whole, we become One, having been where others have been, and can identify with each other. Once you bring in religion, you start comparing and segregating from the primary purpose of carrying the message of recovery.

I found that it isn't about the God I believe in, it is about me being clean and sober. I have friends and have sponsored people from many beliefs, and they stayed sober. If they relapse, it isn't their God's fault, He is there for them if they reach out.

A Bible can be in a room, but when it is given more value and placed above the Big Book or the Basic Text of NA, then it is wrong because for me, it doesn't carry the right motive and intention. I found that I could go to church and feel comfortable. I could identify and share with them. They had no understanding of me and there wasn't the connection that I found in the Fellowships of recovery.

To people, my disease was a big sin. My disease is much more than that. That is why I say sin means "Soul In Need" looking outside of myself to find something that made me feel better. I didn't know that I had to get right with me. Through my God, that happened. Some people use their religion as an excuse for less than spiritual behaviour and thoughts. I am not a SIN, a mistake, I am a child of God who is loved, but I couldn't see or feel that.

In times of hurt and pain, I can and have picked up the Bible, The Big Book, the 12 & 12, and any other piece of literature, if I pray and ask to be lead to what I need, I know it will be provided.

The same thing happens on this site. I seem to be lead to the post that I need or I am on another site and find something that speaks to me, so I share it here. I am also sent e-mails from friends or hear something special when at meeting or talking with friends.

If I limit myself as to what I should or should not do, I limit my God as to how He can help me. Sometimes it is a song, a sign, a person put in my life (God speaks through others), literature, etc. if I am open to receiving it. Not just taking what I want, but willing to be honest, open-minded and willing, to hear what I need to hear.

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

One special thing I heard, I am a spiritual being trying to walk and live on this Earth. I always need food for the body, mind and spirit. I have found that variety is the spice of life, although as a friend once said, "She read every self-help book she could find, only to relapse and come back to recovery, to find that everything she needed was in the Big Book of AA.

It isn't always One that comes first, sometimes we need to look for outside help and look at outside outlets to heal and grow. I was raised in the church, but it wasn't until I went to AA that I could stop drink and not start again. Religion brought guilt and shame and I would go back out because I didn't think I was worthy of recovery. I was raised knowing that Jesus loved me, yet from the messages I got at church, I didn't believe. I didn't think my God believed in me, so until I could change things around, as it says in the Big Book, a change in attitude to bring about recovery.

It isn't the drugs and alcohol, it is the thinking dis-ease behind it.

[BW1]

THE BOOK THAT STARTED IT ALL..THE ORIGINAL WORKING MANUSCRIPT OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS pg 231

Third Printing...April 2011...Hazelton Press

[MajestyJo]

Not saying, it should be forbidden. I just don't like to see people leave because it is brought into a meeting and people leave. It may mean they aren't ready yet, but it also make the feel excluded and they go back out and die.

For me my belief is personal, how can you really explain Him/Her/It. People have to find out for themselves. A lot of people are lead back to the church, and yet so many people have left the church because they want more.

It is amazing how many professionals have never heard of the 12 Steps and Traditions, let alone the Big Book. Al-Anon was an unknown, and took literature to my Doctor to see and put in his waiting room or office.

When I went for counselling at 6 years sober, all the counsellors knew nothing and I introduced them to the 12 Steps. One counsellor said, "JoAnne, I have never seen anyone, come to my office and talk for an hour, come back the next week and everything is processed and you have new issues to address." That is because I used my AA, NA, and Al-Anon programs.

When I went to church, I took the pastor's message and changed it into an AA message, and what the Big Book had to say. When I did that, I could identify.

There are rules, but I try not to bring something into my message that will keep someone from coming back. Keep coming so you don't have to come back because you just might not make it.

Don't let God get in your way. Don't let old tapes keep you from healing and change. God was an old tape for me. As a woman on another site said, "G-d" is because He is so big, we can only see what is revealed to us in today. Like I say, they put the dash in Step One, because my addictions, obsession, and thinking was so numerous, I couldn't list it all, I am more than my addiction, I have more than one addiction.

My first Big Book was a paperback issue of the 3rd Edition. In the front of it is the forward to the first, second, and third Editions (xii-xxii). That is what I base my belief on. I was told to read the book forward and backward, every page is a message of recovery. I came to believe the program would work for me.

I still have that book. An ex-boyfriend gave me a 4th Edition and I passed it on to an ex-sponsee who expressed a desire to have a copy. There is also the religious view of AA on p. 574. At a group anniversary, the first AA group in Hamilton, the minister of the church got up to share at a Gratitude Meeting. He said, "I wish the people upstairs had what you people have downstairs."

I realize this was the original, but it was changed by Bill, Dr. Bob, and the first 100.

http://www.hazelden.org/web/public/101001pr.page

Growth is good. Yet in today, AA has changed and not for the good. They tend to be soft, gloss over things, segregate, and doesn't have the same spirit that I found 22 years ago. Even when I went to the AA Autumn Leaf Roundup this past year, I didn't feel the wholeness and spiritual fulfilling I use to get. The message is deluted, they talk about being drunks instead of how recovery works for them. We all know how to drink and do drugs, what do you do to not drink and drug. Drug that something outside of myself that I use to make me feel better. My recovery had to come from within and begin with me. Maybe I had too many old-timers on my path who showed me the way, they didn't fill in the pot holes, paint a rosy picture, excavated the next bend in the road so it wouldn't be so steep. If I am not willing to make the effort and think I needed it done for me, I am not ready and willing to find sobriety.

Having said that, I would not have stayed sober but for my God. First things first is my sobriety, and to do that, I needed to connect with my God and make Him personal. My God is the Holy Spirit, that resides within me and shows me the way. When I surrendered and said enough! I recognized that He was my only hope and He had been there all along, I had blocked Him from my life. He didn't go away, I did.

I know people don't like these words, but in the Bible it says, "Jesus said, "Ask in my name and I will intercede for you." To me, that means, He too has to go to the Source. As they say, God the father, Jesus the son of God, and the Holy Spirit. For me, that is the light that is within me, which I kept in the dark all of my life and only brought it out when it was convenient.

I gave my life to God at 10 in Bible Camp, does that mean because of my addiction, I was unsaved. I dedicated my life to God many times in my life. I am not saying, that religion is wrong, but if you are going to bring religion into the circle, it has to be ALL religions.

http://images.all-free-download.com/...red_230088.jpg

[BW1]

I Thank God for a group conscience

[Larrylive]

I missed something...sorry. I really should be more vigalant.

I hold the bible in higher regard, although I do concede the Big Book may have been inspired. Of course within the meeting/rooms the topic is the program as explained within the Big Book and should be the center or reference piont. Kinda like church and the bible only different, or one of my textbooks and class. A time and a place for everything, even if I do value one more than the other.

That said may you all have a very Merry Christmas filled with peace, Joy and Spirit.

Be well,
Larry

PS I should also read the whole thread FYI: for clarity last month I placed 6 free bibles of the back table of our group. I plan on placing the picture of Bill & Dr. Bob beside with an alcoholic, of course we all know Bill is holding the Bible in that shot. Carry the message.

[BW1]

Thank You Larry

Keep what is important to you to feed your spirit....let your light shine

Try to remember "Seeing is believing" and what folks see is a large part of carrying the message.

[LookingOut]

Giving out Bibles is an excellent idea. You are not forcing anyone--you are giving them a choice.

Merry Christmas and His peace!

[dickb]

So often you hear the Bible bashers and anti-God folks say that if either God or the Bible had been mentioned when they came into A.A., they'd have walked out of the room and gotten drunk. Sorry. This is undocumented hogwash. The very people who make these statements--designed to intimidate those who believe--are the people who have been in A.A. for years and must have heard the word Bible or the word God many many times. Assuming they were listening instead of fuming or resenting.

[BW1]

This is undocumented hogwash.

Thank You Dick....

"Open minded"
"Willing to go to any lengths "
"Live and Let Live"
"No matter what"
"Acceptance"
"Take what ya need and leave the rest"
etc
etc

anything else just sounds like those old friends.."Rationalization, Justification" "Old Beliefs" or they are opinions or excuses


I sure am grateful those that went before me explained the vital importance of those words in the book that talks about abandoning and surrendering those things

Also want to thank you, Dick, for all you do here and all the ESH that you share with us.

[MajestyJo]

Just sharing my experience, saw it happen many, many times. I have seen people just rely on religion and cut back on meetings and stopped doing the steps, and relapse.

I was raised in the church, went back twice to church, and left and haven't made a choice to go back, although I have thought of it a couple of times, it hasn't materialized. I have no trouble with church, I have issues with some of the doctrines, which are man made.

I have had many people contact me and thanked me for showing them there was another way to believe in God. It is my understanding, your understanding, so why deprive someone else of their understanding.

When you go to an AA meeting, it is an AA meeting. Most are in church basements, so the Bibles are generally there, also posters and literature. As far as I can see, the church is an outside issue. Something to be discussed outside of the rooms of recovery, the Preamble and the Traditions state this.

I grew up knowing Jesus loved me, and I still know He does. That is church, it is not recovery from addiction. Your Higher Power may be Jesus, I didn't find that He worked for me, even though I believed in Him. Knowing of His Love, didn't stop me from becoming an alcohol or an addict. I couldn't stop and stay stopped knowing His Love, I had to find AA and NA for that. There I was introduced to the spiritual aspect of my disease. It was then, that I was able to reinforce my commitment to my God, which is the Holy Spirit. I sponsored an atheist, who ended up going to Bible Study.

When one is focused on the Spirit, you should be open to others and willing to accept everyone into recovery. For me He is the Creator, the Healer, the Majesty and Glory of the Universe and all of creation. He doesn't block people from getting clean and sober.

Bill and Bob and the 1st 100, changed the program so that ALL can recover. What I want to know is why you would choose to keep some people out and not allow them the opportunity for sobriety (soundness of mind).

The Bible like the Big Book, it is all words. Unless you take the words off the pages and live them, they don't work or they make you a hypocrite. All talk and no action makes for a very sick person, be it a Bible Thumper or a Bleeding Deacon.

The Big Book is only suggestions, they are not "Thou shall nots!" There are some darn well betters, or you will pick up a drink or a drug of some kind. Be it food, gambling, workaholism/addicted to busy to escape reality, computers, etc., it all leads to the same soul sickness.

[Larrylive]

"...many people just rely on religion..."

Faith without works is dead. Hence steps 10-12. I believe that's the difference between religion and AA.

Suggestions? there is only one. The AA program of recovery. The big book contains 103 must's if the program is to be followed effectively. Unfortunately it seems many social misfits have found a place where they fit in and have skewed the program so that they are more comfortable.

Anyway...it is New Years Eve, and I wish everyone a safe and happy ending to 2013.

Be Well,
Larry